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Inadvertent "Moisture Problems"
Reading many articles and my experience over the past 30+ years..I have yet to read an article on the biggest culprit, which is moisture introduced inadvertently at time of installation.
The timing of the problems with moisture introduced is apparent, because the problems manifest themselves fairly quickly...usually within weeks or a few months. Many times these "problems" can actually be exacerbated by the USE of a moisture control system..which usually gets the blame for "failing" to work.
What many of those on these projects are unaware of, because frankly many "experts" have little practical experience and are on auto-pilot. When a moisture control system is installed, it prevents moisture from coming up..conversely it ALSO prevents moisture from going down..it cuts BOTH ways!
As water-based products are used..and typically a cementitious leveler or smoothing product is used over these moisture control systems, if the surface is cooler than the air, the water sinks into the coolr surface, because water moves towards cool...why? because of lower pressure and increased cohesive attraction. As air cools, the pressure drops..and a warm room has increased pressure..fuel the air with humidity and we have a very dangerous combination. This combination can more or less "push" the water into the cementitious material, giving it the illusion that the water is and has evaporated..sometimes so quickly that the adhesive can set prematurely..leading to an odd combination of free standing moisture and a set adhesive...ANYTIME you see that combination it is NOT moisture originating from the concrete!!!
Water/moisture originating from the concrete will cause the adhesive to let go of the concrete; reemulsify, and/or deteriorate (losing cohesion and plasticity)..THAT's when you know the moisture is caused by the concrete..and usually takes more than a year to create these problems (unless the concrete is "new" (less than 5 years old).
Think of moisture-related issues as a combination lock..there are many clicks that will usually create what appears to be a single problem.
I will cover some of the more common problems I've seen in these situations..singularly as to not create a burdensome/tedious subject matter...
The photo on here shows a "mysterious" puddle of water that formed on a daily basis ON the concrete surface..the contractor, building owner and just about everyone else was stumped by this.....I made the diagnosis....let's see how you do! It'll be interesting to hear everyone's take on this..and once understood..explains a lot and VERY graphically just how underestimated this problem truly is!
The timing of the problems with moisture introduced is apparent, because the problems manifest themselves fairly quickly...usually within weeks or a few months. Many times these "problems" can actually be exacerbated by the USE of a moisture control system..which usually gets the blame for "failing" to work.
What many of those on these projects are unaware of, because frankly many "experts" have little practical experience and are on auto-pilot. When a moisture control system is installed, it prevents moisture from coming up..conversely it ALSO prevents moisture from going down..it cuts BOTH ways!
As water-based products are used..and typically a cementitious leveler or smoothing product is used over these moisture control systems, if the surface is cooler than the air, the water sinks into the coolr surface, because water moves towards cool...why? because of lower pressure and increased cohesive attraction. As air cools, the pressure drops..and a warm room has increased pressure..fuel the air with humidity and we have a very dangerous combination. This combination can more or less "push" the water into the cementitious material, giving it the illusion that the water is and has evaporated..sometimes so quickly that the adhesive can set prematurely..leading to an odd combination of free standing moisture and a set adhesive...ANYTIME you see that combination it is NOT moisture originating from the concrete!!!
Water/moisture originating from the concrete will cause the adhesive to let go of the concrete; reemulsify, and/or deteriorate (losing cohesion and plasticity)..THAT's when you know the moisture is caused by the concrete..and usually takes more than a year to create these problems (unless the concrete is "new" (less than 5 years old).
Think of moisture-related issues as a combination lock..there are many clicks that will usually create what appears to be a single problem.
I will cover some of the more common problems I've seen in these situations..singularly as to not create a burdensome/tedious subject matter...
The photo on here shows a "mysterious" puddle of water that formed on a daily basis ON the concrete surface..the contractor, building owner and just about everyone else was stumped by this.....I made the diagnosis....let's see how you do! It'll be interesting to hear everyone's take on this..and once understood..explains a lot and VERY graphically just how underestimated this problem truly is!
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dewpoint2.jpg, 19 KB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Stephen on -
Is that the inside of a walk in refridgerator or is one on the other side of that wall?
That could explain it.
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Permalink Reply by Bob Higgins on -
Yes it is...this is the room adjacent to the refrigerator..the metal wall is the "insulated" outer wall of that cold storage unit.
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Permalink Reply by Dan Schultz on -
The concrete (uninsulated) next to the refrigerated unit is acting like a glass of iced beverage.
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Permalink Reply by Stephen on
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Posted by Bob Higgins
As water-based products are used..and typically a cementitious leveler or smoothing product is used over these moisture control systems, if the .........
Yeah I never did like the idea of leveling the substrate after the sealer. But then theres that crazy idea I get in my head that the patch is going to do weird things under it too. Ahhh
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Permalink Reply by Bob Higgins on
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exactly correct...by using a infrared thermometer..along with an air thermometer and hygrometer..it was easy to show them the concrete surface was at or below dewpoint...it was an easy repair....the poorly insulated storage room bottom was physically isolated by using an insulative urethane in a wide cut along the base...the concrete stopped being influenced by the storage unit..they sure wasted a lot of money testing for leaks, etc before I got there!
It amazes me how many times this happens..people waste money on meaningless testing..the repair was fast, simple and inexpensive...
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Permalink Reply by Bob Higgins on
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You guys are good....it's easy when you KNOW what you are doing..and that is the entire point of sharing information like this.
Projects like this SHOULD be an easy diagnosis.
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