Konecto

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Stephen on January 4, 2010 at 4:49pm

Hi Linda, welcome back.

I don't know what it is about that product and manufactured housing but all the inspections I did were in them. Mostly the consumer left no HVAC going and temps got extreme.

First picture looks like an applicance on top of it? My feelings are Konecto should have a weight limit.

Second picture looks like the door casing was not undercut. Even though the perimeter gap is minimal it does need some gap for expansion. This flooring will expand and shrink, and the adhesive does not allow it to go back together if it gets extreme.

On the carpet issue, thats crazy. I'd call the rep and ask him to pony up for the repairs. Forget the super glue, that stuff is tough but does break.

Funny thing you mentioned this product. I just ran into a client of mine where I installed his whole house over concrete and he has not had one problem. I used vinyl transition strips in the bedroom doorways and undercut the door casings.

Oh look... Hugh Scott just now joined up. He sells quite a lot of it. Perhaps he will chime in.

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Permalink Reply by Hugh Scott on January 4, 2010 at 6:19pm

Hello Stephen, Melvin, Mrs Smith.

We sell a whole lot of it about 500K foot since we started selling.
Melvin has a good point, this floor never should have been laid over existing commercial carpet, you have no warranty with Konecto.

Whomever suggested it be laid over the carpet is completely off his/her rocker.
Konecto has a density rating of about 92 PSI that is great but if the floor under it is a 5 PSI the konecto will dent, the dent will lead to joint seperation and the floor will fail.
From the pics I see two issues, the carpet of course and the lack of expansion, While this can create a problem the carpet negates all normal application issues.
I am sure the floor has migrated due to the carpet but that is a minumal point since..... the carpet should never have been there.
If somebody gave you a warranty prior to install I would track them down and make em pay up!

There is a potential degree of failure in any floor application. It is important that we apply all manufacture warranty points and then use common sense.
I turned down a large church job for the same issue, they did not want to remove the carpet.
I want sales just like the other guy but we must know our limitations.

Hugh Scott
Indiana Floors LLC
www.indianafloorsllc.com

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Permalink Reply by Linda Smith on January 5, 2010 at 6:41am

Thanks to all for the input. You are right-I should have gotten their promise in writing. Artistek, the Konecto distributor said they would send an indepndent inspector to look at the job. Now the Artistek rep was one of the 2 people, who said at the meeting originally, that the install over carpet should work-that when Konecto says not to install over carpet, they are talking about more pile than this situation presented. The reason we did not want to take up the carpet was that it was glued down with asbestos mastic. Huge expense that the owners did not want to incur. Plus it meant evacuating everyone from the nursing home. Even the professional "troubleshooting" rep from Adleta, whom I purchased the flooring from, came to the job to instruct my installers on day 1. He believed the install would work also. Now they are all "crawfishing". They haven't come right out and told me they wouldn't help, but the report from the "independent contractor" (written on Artistek letterhead-That's independent?) said "laid over carpet-no warranty".Before I call a meeting with all these who stood behind me in the beginning,, I wanted some of your input out there.
I should mention that In the dining room where the Konecto was moving awaw from the wall, we lifted it up, put 9" double stick carpet tape down, and then re-laid the Konecto. That worked, but the product still wants to move, so the joints are opening up. That's why I was thinking spray adhesive.
I wondered if I had sprayed some adhesive on the carpet first, it would have kept the flooring from "creeping". Undoubtedly, I need to repair this job. I have 10,000 sq.ft. down, but not all is "bad". Seems to be only certain areas, that I have repaired 2 or 3 times.

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Permalink Reply by Stephen on January 5, 2010 at 7:25am

Linda, Looks like you'll be married to this job for quite awhile, bummer.

Don't expect the independant inspector to say anything differently, they are trained by the manufacture. I know exactly who takes care of those inspections. Big surprise huh?

About that carpet, when was it installed? I have never seen any carpet glued "with" cutbac adhesive. Typically as long as I have been installing for 33 years we have always used your run of the mill multi-purpose adhesive.

I remember when laminate manufactures at first said it was ok to install over thin guage commercial glued down carpet just like these guys did. They were hungry for large sales. That came back to bite them.

Don't get mean yet, wait till they say absolutely no. Then go ballistic on them.

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Permalink Reply by Hugh Scott on January 5, 2010 at 2:15pm

Metroflor will not accept the inspection of an independent agency anyway there are two few qualified inspectors because the floor is so new to the market.

I think this is gonna happen more and more as the inspecton field be comes over run.

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Permalink Reply by Stephen on January 5, 2010 at 4:25pm

Thats funny because I did several for them through LN Inc.

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Permalink Reply by Stephen on January 5, 2010 at 4:39pm

Great point Melvin, I mentioned that as well. I think someone saw old cutbac adhesive and thought the carpet was laid with it. Not very well read person IMHO.

So all this hassle for not.

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Permalink Reply by Hugh Scott on January 5, 2010 at 4:45pm

I agree Melvin.

I saw an indepedent inspection rejected last month by metroflor.

I was wondering about the carpet as well.I am inclined to think it may not have been tested, it is rare to find carpet with asbestos in the glue.
The contractor may not wanted to have it removed and claimed as so.
Glue down carpet removal can get expensive when you are talking 10K foot

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Permalink Reply by Stephen on January 5, 2010 at 6:51pm

Actually the cutbac should not be an issue at all. B'fore the carpet was installed it should have been skim coated with Ardex-sf. Even then taking the carpet up would not be a issue with asbestos. It happens every day.

Skim coating after carpet removal would be an option not a necessity for the Konecto installation. Konecto needs to hire another rep.

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Permalink Reply by Linda Smith on January 5, 2010 at 8:04pm

This carpet has been down a long time! Nursing home was built in the 50's. Before I came into the picture, they did have some abestos people inspect the job, verify that asbestos abatement was necessary, and only specialized people could remove it, at over $50,000.00.Otherwise, the health inspectors will allow any company to take up no more than 4 sq. ft. a day, which just wasn't feasible. That carpet was so old, and so worn, there was almost no fiber left on the surface. Laying Konecto over it was almost like laying a floating laminate over pad.

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Permalink Reply by Hugh Scott on January 6, 2010 at 7:19am

That is a failure point right there.Konecto is not a laminate as we all know.
It cannot be laid over any pad.
I sold a dancer studio with a pad under it but I told the customer there was no warranty and I used the highest compression underlayment I could get, they demanded a padding, it was a small studio so I sold it to date and told them no furniture on the floor. That was over a year ago with no problems

I think what happened is you got some sales people that were unfamiliar with Konecto. There are many parts of the country we ship to that have only seen it on the internet.
If it came from Adleta they are one of the smaller distributors in the country and they share a portion of thier area with Herregans.
They may have been slow getting proper training to the reps.

We experienced a little of that with our local distributor only one guy in the whole company had good solid facts.

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Permalink Reply by Stephen on January 6, 2010 at 7:29am

If I had a mold company come out to check for mold if I see a smigen I bet he would say I needed mold abatement.

Next time take small sample to a lab near you. There are plenty of them. Should be no more that like 2% asbestos. I'd bet dollars to donuts that was not carpet adhesive but merely VAT adhesive residue. Cutbac was never used for carpet installs.

But anyway, back to the problem at hand. I'd be seriously upset about the rep sending out an inspector. He is supposed to be the expert. They actually train those guys that go out to do inspections and they train them to say what they want. Besides that the rep told you that it was ok to install it wrong, so it's installed wrong and thats what the report will say. Been there4 done that.

The carpet is like going over a pad. Problem is that it is not as rigid as a laminate. And then even laminates can slip around and get out of place depending on traffic and the slipperyness of the underlayment.

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