"Bona traffic peeling" cached

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Permalink Reply by Everett on July 28, 2011 at 5:05pm

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Terry	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:01 pm
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:17 pm Posts: 1025 Location: Ireland	Kinghawg98 wrote : > consumer wrote : > > It is true, Kinghawg an contract that contains illegal requirements is not worth > the > > paper it is written on. Apparently, attempting to confuse or hoodwink someone > by > > putting illegal language in a contract makes the contract totally worthless. > > > > The fact that you feel I am not entitled to treble damages does not bother me a > twit. > > I can totally understand why the thought upsets you. After all the > inconvenience > > I have been put through by this floor guy. I have no qualms about collecting > any > > money due me. He had a chance to fix things. He refused. > > > > BTW: If a contractor fails to correct damage when dealing with an elderly > person. > > The contractor is also on the hook for treble damages, whether or not the > contract is > > valid. It is considered elder abuse. Just so you know. > > > > And if that scares the bejesus out of you.......well it shouldn't......Not if > you are > > an honest competent contractor. > > I thought you were done with me...? > > Nice attempt at a slam there, its cute. Rude, useless and idiotic, but cute > nonetheless. As I said, I've had one issue on a job. I was the one that would go > the extra mile to make things swell the first time around, explain to a customer how > the job was going to work, etc. We spent little in advertising- word of mouth was > king for us so screwing up or screwing someone just doesn't work. The elderly, > though, I abused the hell out of them. Amazing how you keyed in on that. I charged > them 5x what I would charge a young girl wearing a loose, boob showing shirt. Then, > I did shitty sub-par work- I mean, the old people can't see anyway. Besides, they > will die soon, so that finish doesn't have to last too long. Just thin it in half, > it looks good enough for them. The best part of working for old people, when they > weren't looking (mostly they were just sleeping in their recliners > "watching" Judge Wapner, Perry Mason or Wheel of Fortune) you could rifle > through all their stuff and usually make out with thousands of dollars in gold > jewelry, coins, cash, and even antiques! Then, they would wake up around 11am and > offer to make you lunch! Yea, I love me some old people...but now that you told me I > can be on the hook for treble.....crap! I have to rethink everything!!!! > > Do whatever it takes to make you feel better. I know your floors just ruined your > life and extra money would sure make it better. /sarcam I mean, its not really about > the money anyway, its all about proving a point, right? > > Good luck to you. > > Oh, I almost forgot. Its doubtful that its the finish's fault. Just ask the > manufacturer... And I was being dramatic. pot, kettle and black King. No fan of Bona but we all agree not there fault this time. Terry
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Kinghawg98	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:17 pm
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:39 am Posts: 2186 Location: Texas	Terry wrote : > And I was being dramatic. pot, kettle and black King. > > No fan of Bona but we all agree not there fault this time. > > Terry Terry, You were being dramatic. I was being a sarcastic ass with the old people thing. See the difference? -Greg
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consumer	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:18 pm
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:32 pm Posts: 19	Kinghawg98 wrote : I was being a sarcastic ass with the old people thing. > > -Greg Kinghawgh: Well, I see we agree on something. All the men I have ever met in or from Texas have been bigger dramatic "sarcastic asses." than any arses I have ever met anywhere else. Are they all like that in Texas??????? Now Ireland. The men tend to be polite with a large dose of integrity. I really liked Ireland. I know, I am being a sarcastic arse too, I am just trying to get some rapport going here. But really as long as your SUV doesn't make your arse look big, why worry! ;)
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Kinghawg98	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:04 pm
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:39 am Posts: 2186 Location: Texas	consumer wrote : > Kinghawg98 wrote : > I was being a sarcastic ass with the old people thing. > > > > -Greg > > Kinghawgh: > > Well, I see we agree on something. > > All the men I have ever met in or from Texas have been bigger dramatic > "sarcastic asses." than any arses I have ever met anywhere else. Are > they all like that in Texas??????? > > Now Ireland. The men tend to be polite with a large dose of integrity. I really > liked Ireland. > > I know, I am being a sarcastic arse too, I am just trying to get some rapport going > here. But really as long as your SUV doesn't make your arse look big, why worry! ;) Yes, we're all sarcastic asses in Texas at all times. Actually, not- just when liberals come along demanding things they don't deserve. I mean, that attitude flies somewhat in Austin, but the rest of Texas, well, we'll string you up for that kind of stupid talk. So, you really do dislike all men, don't you? I mean....nudge nudge wink wink...
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consumer	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:46 pm
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:32 pm Posts: 31	Crowsflooring wrote : > WOW 1800 sq ft...If I recall, you said he prep it in a couple of hours > then started coating. That job wouldv'e taken me 2 days Crows' That is what I thought. Even with one coat. I wasn't watching him the entire time, but I don't recall hearing a sander going for any extended time. I did hear it briefly though. Someone else who used to do contracting, laughed and said he knew some guys that used to run a electric drills and screwdrivers periodically to make he homeowner think they were really working. Anyway, the floor initially looked pretty Last edited by consumer on Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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consumer	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:49 pm
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:32 pm Posts: 31	Custom wrote : > consumer, > > you might want to check and see if it is worth suing the kid. If the kid > doesn't have an long time established business, he could just close shop > and you get stuck with attorney fees. I don't know many floor sanders in > their early 20s that would have thousands of dollars in a bank account. Custom I did ask the attorney about that. He said even if he declares bankruptcy I will eventually get the money. Also, the guy owns property. Last edited by consumer on Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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biz	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:49 pm
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:51 pm Posts: 308	Kinghawg98 wrote : > consumer wrote : > > > I think they still hang horse thieve in Texas. They don't cotton to property > theft > > OR THEFT BY FRAUD to well, neither. Here is the penal code section discussing > it > > > > > Kinhawhg, are you sure you are still comfy in Texas. > > > Absolutely I'm very comfy here! I am a big fan of the castle doctrine as well. And > the option to carry concealed. Hopefully they pass open carry. That would be nice. > > Oh and we don't hang. We like our sodium thiopenal and potassium chloride....or we > just take you out to the woods and you know, you get "lost" Hell yeah, I'd move to Texas in a heartbeat. They know what they're doing, just compare their financial situation to california or NY or even Michigan. My state's pretty good as far as that goes too but jeez, no state income tax?? Sounds dreamy. I heard that some liberal nutjob pundit claimed that Rick Perry was "poaching" jobs from other states with their fiscal policies... Fekkin libs I swear. Keynes was a dumbass people, WAKE UP! This reminds me I really need to get my lifetime permit to carry... E in Ind-E Last edited by biz on Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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consumer	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:51 pm
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:32 pm Posts: 31	biz wrote : > Hell yeah, I'd move to Texas in a heartbeat. They know what they're doing, > just compare their financial situation to california or NY or even > Michigan. My state's pretty good as far as that goes too but jeez, no state > income tax?? Sounds dreamy. I heard that some liberal nutjob pundit claimed > that Rick Perry was "poaching" jobs from other states with their > fiscal policies... Fekkin libs I swear. Keynes was a dumbass people, WAKE > UP! This reminds me I really need to get my lifetime permit to carry... > > E in Ind-E Biz: It's easy to get a permit to carry in PA, too.
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consumer	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:04 pm
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:32 pm Posts: 31	Dale Rosilio wrote : > I agree with Chuckles, Sue them all!!!! > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNzSYMHR ... page#t=17s Dale: I found your link in another thread. Initially I was afraid to click the link 'cause I thought it might contain a trojan. But I did use the link in the other thread. I found photos of your work and tongue and groovers work at the site. Nice work guys. Reeeally nice. The floors look so level and sharp. I need an expert opinion, so if you and anyone else can chime in I would appreciate the input. Presently I have white oak floors with no stain. I am thinking of going darker. Like the floor in this photograph at your site. http://www.flooringinstaller.com/photo/ ... ntext=user What color stain is on that floor? Also, what do y'all think of going darker instead of staying natural? Some contractors said darker is out dated. Others say a lot of people like the darker colors. What do you find in your work?
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Dale Rosilio	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:20 pm
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:28 pm Posts: 645	Consumer, A trojan? LOL It is amusing to see how paranoid we've become as a society these days.......... Anyhow, that picture is natural, 1 coat of VerMeister Aqua Tenax and 3 coats of Idro 2k waterbase finish. The wood is Tigerwood and is naturally that color. As far as staining White Oak goes, do what you like, I/ we don't have to live with it YOU DO. I feel staining is a personal preference, what I like you may not like and vice-versa. English Chestnut might looked good if you want some "reddish" tones or for a more aged look try 2pt Cherry, 2pts colonial maple and 1 pt early american as we just did on a 4" wide White Oak job this week....... Have fun and as Sol said Sue em all!!!!!
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consumer	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:23 pm
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:32 pm Posts: 31	Thank you for the suggestions, dale.
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Tongue in groover	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:27 pm
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:39 pm Posts: 794	Consumer, Please curb the accolades to Dale...if his head gets any bigger he will float away:) Thank you for the kind words. Than pic of Dales is Tigerwood, there is no stain on it. This is the natural color of that species. Some guys will tell you natural is the way to go so they don’t have to stain. White oak is darker then red oak and does look nice in a natural state. We just installed 1800 sq ft of 5" WO and finished it 2 parts cherry to one part natural and it looks sweet. White oak stains differently than red oak, any red in the stain will be cut by the white oaks natural color so our floor isn’t a strong red. Make sure you see samples on your floor prepped the way it will be once its refinished to make a stain choice. Sorry I see that the fat head had answer your questions:)lol
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Dale Rosilio	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:32 pm
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:28 pm Posts: 645	Just trying to grow into a Stetson so I can Move to Tex-ass ;) Btw: I thought you was working today so you could play hookie on Monday?
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Tongue in groover	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:36 pm
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:39 pm Posts: 794	I cant start till 1pm cuz thats when the owners are leaving for vaca. So why your polishing your hardwood, I will be installing mine:)
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Dale Rosilio	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:37 pm
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:28 pm Posts: 645	Btw: Groovero, I got that stair job, bottom half 5 new left return treads w/ starter tread in Braz cherry, as well as the upper closed treads. The bottom half is closed at this time but we're removing the existing rail/ spindle system to accomodate the new open system and installing new rail/ spindle system volute/ rosettes and all....Nice job
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twaeker	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:38 pm
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:28 am Posts: 50	I think this person is full of shit. And a narcissist. Supposedly going to spend $10-20k on lawyers for a $6k refinish. Right. And then, because the floor was already worn, (thats why it needed a recoat), damages won't be the full cost anyway. Since the poster can't say with any detail what the contractor did or didn't do, it's up to the poster to prove that a recoat would work. Any knowledgeable floor expert will say on the stand that there is no 100% guarantee on recoats. All the finish manufacturers will say the same. And why couldn't this floor be saved? Just buff the new finish off and start over. Contractors fault for not warning the dangers and possible shoddy work. Actual damages are little more than the money the poster paid him + some for furniture moving. But this person has been on the DIY sites and heard that Traffic is too difficult to use, so he obviously knows best.
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Tongue in groover	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:49 pm
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:39 pm Posts: 794	Good Boy!! We may have to start calling u stairmaster :)
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Dale Rosilio	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:59 pm
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:28 pm Posts: 645	with where this thread was headed I was shooting for stainmaster ;)
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Dale Rosilio	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:00 pm
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:28 pm Posts: 645	I'd love to stick around but I have to go polish my wood =D

Permalink Reply by Everett on July 28, 2011 at 5:06pm

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consumer	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:01 pm
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:32 pm Posts: 31	Tongue in groover wrote : > Consumer, > Please curb the accolades to Dale...if his head gets any bigger he will > float away:) Thank you for the kind words. > > Than pic of Dales is Tigerwood, there is no stain on it. This is the > natural color of that species. > > Some guys will tell you natural is the way to go so they don’t have to > stain. White oak is darker then red oak and does look nice in a natural > state. We just installed 1800 sq ft of 5" WO and finished it 2 parts > cherry to one part natural and it looks sweet. White oak stains differently > than red oak, any red in the stain will be cut by the white oaks natural > color so our floor isn’t a strong red. Make sure you see samples on your > floor prepped the way it will be once its refinished to make a stain > choice. > > Sorry I see that the fat head had answer your questions:)lol Tongue in groover: Thanks for the added information. You and Dale both had great looking work. Dana Last edited by consumer on Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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consumer	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:17 pm
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:32 pm Posts: 31	twaeker wrote : > I think this person is full of shit. And a narcissist. Supposedly going to > spend $10-20k on lawyers for a $6k refinish. Right. And then, because the > floor was already worn, (thats why it needed a recoat), damages won't be > the full cost anyway. Since the poster can't say with any detail what the > contractor did or didn't do, it's up to the poster to prove that a recoat > would work. Any knowledgeable floor expert will say on the stand that there > is no 100% guarantee on recoats. All the finish manufacturers will say the > same. And why couldn't this floor be saved? Just buff the new finish off > and start over. > > Contractors fault for not warning the dangers and possible shoddy work. > Actual damages are little more than the money the poster paid him + some > for furniture moving. But this person has been on the DIY sites and heard > that Traffic is too difficult to use, so he obviously knows best. Twaeker: Geesh you sound angrier than a gator with his mouth duct taped closed. I can see I tweeked your ego. Are you a shrink, too? I thought you were a contractor. Anyway you must be one heck of a shrink that can diagnose someone as a narcissist online based on a handful of posts. It's my understanding that a narcissistic disorder is pretty difficult to diagnose and requires extensive examination by a shrink. But I do know that misplaced cockiness and confidence,and refusal to admit error, are some of the persistent symptoms they look for, when attempting to diagnose a narcissist. Still, I am definitely not qualified to make such a diagnosis, even after extensive contact. In any case, 20 grand for legal fees. Whaaaat? What kinda' lawyers do you know. Mine is not charging anywhere near 20 grand for the case, geesh. You need to start getting estimates before hiring your next attorney if you have ever been charged that much to defend a contractor dispute. BTW: The lawyer thinks the case is an easy win although he cautioned that no case is ever a slam dunk. Why? The floor guy's contract is void because of the weasel words he included, and he damaged my property. End of story. Sorry if that bothers but I think knowing the rules of law is good lesson here for both consumers and contractors alike. I guess the guy just couldn't hide his true persona. The lawyer will give him one last chance to pay the repair costs and his consult fee, prior to filing. He no longer has the option to do the repair himself. The lawyer advised me not to let him back on the property. And yes. I am going for treble damages, if he won't, and I can get it. It was the lawyer's advice to do so. Dana
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russ1979	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:38 pm
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:03 pm Posts: 134 Location: london	consumer wrote : > twaeker wrote : > > I think this person is full of shit. And a narcissist. Supposedly going to > > spend $10-20k on lawyers for a $6k refinish. Right. And then, because the > > floor was already worn, (thats why it needed a recoat), damages won't be > > the full cost anyway. Since the poster can't say with any detail what the > > contractor did or didn't do, it's up to the poster to prove that a recoat > > would work. Any knowledgeable floor expert will say on the stand that there > > is no 100% guarantee on recoats. All the finish manufacturers will say the > > same. And why couldn't this floor be saved? Just buff the new finish off > > and start over. > > > > Contractors fault for not warning the dangers and possible shoddy work. > > Actual damages are little more than the money the poster paid him + some > > for furniture moving. But this person has been on the DIY sites and heard > > that Traffic is too difficult to use, so he obviously knows best. > > > > Twaeker: > > Geesh you sound angrier than a gator with his mouth duct taped closed. I can see I > tweeked your ego. > > Are you a shrink, too? I thought you were a contractor. > > Anyway you must be one heck of a shrink that can diagnose someone as a narcissist > online based on a handful of posts. It's my understanding that a narcissistic > disorder is pretty difficult to diagnose and requires extensive examination by a > shrink. > > But I do know that misplaced cockiness and confidence,and refusal to admit error, > are some of the persistent symptoms they look for, when attempting to diagnose a > narcissist. Still, I am definitely not qualified to make such a diagnosis, even > after extensive contact. > > In any case, 20 grand for legal fees. Whaaaat? > > What kinda' lawyers do you know. Mine is not charging anywhere near 20 grand for > the case, geesh. You need to start getting estimates before hiring your next > attorney if you have ever been charged that much to defend a contractor dispute. > > BTW: The lawyer thinks the case is an easy win although he cautioned that no case is > ever a slam dunk. > > Why? > > The floor guy's contract is void because of the weasel words he included, and he > damaged my property. End of story. > > Sorry if that bothers but I think knowing the rules of law is good lesson here for > both consumers and contractors alike. > > I guess the guy just couldn't hide his true persona. > > The lawyer will give him one last chance to pay the repair costs and his consult fee, > prior to filing. He no longer has the option to do the repair himself. The lawyer > advised me not to let him back on the property. > > And yes. I am going for treble damages, if he won't, and I can get it. It was > the lawyer's advice to do so. > > Dana treble damages says it all. I wonder why the lawyer is telling you that.!! I guess some people like to work hard for the nice things in life. You've obvously have been down this route before. your clearly a bad judge of character, you picked this guy to come in and do the works.
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Kinghawg98	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:44 pm
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:39 am Posts: 2189 Location: Texas	Oh Dana...you miss the point. Sad. Ah well. You never did answer my question...
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biz	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:16 pm
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:51 pm Posts: 308	There's a small part of this that doesn't quite add up to me, you claim he never warned you that this could fail or that there was no guarantee, yet you keep mentioning this "weasely" language in his contract, so this leads me to conclude that you didn't read the contract (because if you did you would have then read that there was in fact no guarantee) What am I missing here? I know you probably can't post a copy of the contract but I'm curious at this point exactly what this language said. That is very sad when someone who doesn't read contracts is considered or assumed to be the victim, no matter what their age. (If that is in fact what happened here) Thanks lawyers, thanks a lot.
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Dale Rosilio	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:56 pm
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:28 pm Posts: 645	I won't take sides in this issue because we do only have one side to base an opinion on and isn't fair to her or her contractor. At any rate I do find Dana's grammatical abilities refreshing as well as her abilities to trade barbs here.....The entertainment value is priceless............ Also Dana, thanks for the kind words =D
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consumer	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:10 pm
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:32 pm Posts: 31	biz wrote : > There's a small part of this that doesn't quite add up to me, you claim he > never warned you that this could fail or that there was no guarantee, yet > you keep mentioning this "weasely" language in his contract, so > this leads me to conclude that you didn't read the contract (because if > you did you would have then read that there was in fact no guarantee) What > am I missing here? I know you probably can't post a copy of the contract > but I'm curious at this point exactly what this language said. That is very > sad when someone who doesn't read contracts is considered or assumed to be > the victim, no matter what their age. (If that is in fact what happened > here) Thanks lawyers, thanks a lot. -------------------- Biz: You are making an awful lot of assumptions, about the parts of the contract that make the contract null, none of which are accurate. There is more than simply the weasel words that nullified this bonehead's contract. There was language in the contract that was confusing legalese and pointless. I read the contract but that paragraph was so convoluted that I needed an attorney to decipher it. I am not an attorney, and I don't even play one on TV. But I am glad I sought the advise of one. ------------------------- Kinghawg: What question did I refuse to answer? I only answer valid questions. But here's a question for you......Do you think my SUV makes my backside look big? ---------- Dale: You are welcome, and same goes for your kind words. :)
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biz	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:50 pm
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:51 pm Posts: 308	consumer wrote : > biz wrote : > > There's a small part of this that doesn't quite add up to me, you claim he > > never warned you that this could fail or that there was no guarantee, yet > > you keep mentioning this "weasely" language in his contract, so > > this leads me to conclude that you didn't read the contract (because if > > you did you would have then read that there was in fact no guarantee) What > > am I missing here? I know you probably can't post a copy of the contract > > but I'm curious at this point exactly what this language said. That is very > > sad when someone who doesn't read contracts is considered or assumed to be > > the victim, no matter what their age. (If that is in fact what happened > > here) Thanks lawyers, thanks a lot. > > -------------------- > > Biz: > > You are making an awful lot of assumptions, about the parts of the contract that make > the contract null, none of which are accurate. There is more than simply the weasel > words that nullified this bonehead's contract. > > There was language in the contract that was confusing legalese and pointless. I read > the contract but that paragraph was so convoluted that I needed an attorney to > decipher it. I am not an attorney, and I don't even play one on TV. But I am > glad I sought the advise of one. No, I'm not making an ass out of u or me. ;) I'm asking for clarification because that part of this situation didn't make sense, now that you've clarified it does make more sense so thank you. I wish you could post that paragraph you speak of, I'd like to see it. Seems like there should be some language that one could use in a contract that wouldn't be weasely or illegal that would both clearly spell out the risk and cover the contractor's ass. We do small test spots in inconspicuous areas to test the strength of the bond. It sounds to me like if this guy had done that your floor would have instantly been ruled out as a candidate for a recoat. I've had a lot of test spots fail and save me from a situation like this. Earlier you mentioned that you showed him the bottles of cleaner you used, and that you use only bona products. Could you post a pic of those bottles or tell us the exact name of the bona product you've been using?
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Glenn/SFC	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:57 pm
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:07 am Posts: 946	I've been following this thread and it has been amusing. However, I think it may be time for consumer to exit stage left and get on with her life. If what she says is true, and this is not all made up for our entertainment, then she is probably owed the money she paid. She is not, in my opinion, entitled to receive a benefit for her inconvenience or an enrichment over and above her actual losses. Lawyers have a term for this, similar to unjust enrichment, but I can't recall what it is. The contract she has with the contractor and the jurisdiction will determine what damage awards can be sought. If treble damages were allowed to be imposed on all contract services everywhere, then there would be few people left in service industries.
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Dale Rosilio	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:07 pm
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:28 pm Posts: 645	Glenn, Treble Damages are for Willful negligence and they'd have to prove that the failure was due to the contractors willful violation of normal procedures and probably tough to prove. At any rate this contractor will, if he has common sense, will re-examine his approach to this aspect of the work.....
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consumer

Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:27 pm

Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:32 pm Posts: 31

Glenn/SFC wrote : > I've been following this thread and it has been amusing. However, I think > it may be time for consumer to exit stage left and get on with her life. Hi glen: I am glad you were amused. I have been, too. Sounds though as if you are trying to shoo me off the board. I guess I would prefer to keep consumers in the dark about their rights if I were an unscrupulous contractor. Personally, Glen, with your attitude as expressed here, I think it's time for you to exit stage left from the contractor business before you run into someone who really knows their rights and truly has no qualms about breaking your bank using all their legal skills and knowledge, simply 'cause you pissed him off. > If what she says is true, and this is not all made up for our > entertainment, then she is probably owed the money she paid. She is not, in > my opinion, entitled to receive a benefit for her inconvenience or an > enrichment over and above her actual losses. Lawyers have a term for this, > similar to unjust enrichment, but I can't recall what it is. Yes, Glen, they do. And you are right, people can sue for actual damages and can not sue for enrichment. Unless.......the law says they can. And, in my state, if certain contract violations exist, the consumer can ask for treble damages. So, in my state, treble damages are allowed if the contract is null, as determined by new stricter laws instituted recently. I can totally understand why certain types of people would not want their customers to know about treble damages. That go beyond the need to establish "willful negligence." That is not a requirement if certain violations exist. > The contract she has with the contractor and the jurisdiction will > determine what damage awards can be sought. If treble damages were allowed > to be imposed on all contract services everywhere, then there would be few > people left in service industries. Glen, I think the contractors that would be left in business would be the honest contractors. And, the fewer contractors out their the better it is for the good contractors. They can charge profitable rates, with less competition. It's basic supply and demand. Personally, If I were a contractor, I would want to put all the unscrupulous ones out of business because It would certainly improve my bottom line. Again, it's a supply and demand thing. I have a customer satisfaction guarantee for all my work. If I feel that a job disables me from REALISTICALLY providing that guarantee. I do not take the job. That's how it should work with floor recoats. If you can't guarantee success and don't want to make it right. Turn down the job. Otherwise it could easily turn into a racket, where the floor guy takes a recoat stipulating that he might later have to sand and redo at an additional charge if recoat fails That would set consumers up for fraud on a regular basis because at that point the contractor could purposely screw up the recoat just to get the additional money for the sand to bare wood whether or not it was needed. BTW: I have witnesses who will testify to the condition of the floors. It was good, with only the topcoat getting dull. Now it is a mess. So, if my floor guy is posting here using the name, Glen and wallowing in wishful thinking...... Boo! Boo, because some of the things also make my floor guys behavior possibly a criminal violation, and if my guy gets me too angry, I may go that route.

Permalink Reply by Everett on July 29, 2011 at 4:22pm

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consumer	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:20 pm
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:32 pm Posts: 37	Kinghawg98 wrote : > Dana- > > You are a grade A bitch. Every time someone does not agree, you rail into > a personal attack. Pretty pathetic. > > Probably guilt on your part, knowing you're not deserving of the triple > damages. > > My unanswered question was about your hatred for men... > > -Greg ---------------------- Kinghawh: You appear to be delusional. I have been very friendly here, despite attacks. I have tried to use humor to diffuse the anger from some of the most likely incompetent contractors here who have been referring to me as a liar or greedy or whatever since posting. I think you feel guilty as you should. As for your inane question. Do you hate all your customers and consider them an easy mark? On most message boards referring to other posters as a "bitch" or "liar" or implying that you take people into the woods and shoot them, if they don't like your work, is grounds for being banned. But I am glad that you are showing your true colors.
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consumer	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:30 pm
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:32 pm Posts: 37	Glenn/SFC wrote : > Quite frankly, I posted to see what kind of response I would get to my > reasonable opinion that I believe unjust enrichment is wrong. Your response > reveals to me someone who has been wronged and is out to get her pound of > flesh and ruin someone's livelihood along the way. > > You don't know me from a hole in the wall and I don't know you or do I have > firsthand knowledge of your relationship with the contractor. But, if the > way you have presented your problem to the contractor is in anyway like you > have behaved here, then I am not at all surprised that you could not work > this out with him. Your words in response to me of "before you run > into someone who really knows their rights and truly has no qualms about > breaking your bank using all their legal skills and knowledge, simply > 'cause you pissed him off"...proves my point. You may be acting > unreasonably. > > I am sorry that this contractor did not do right by you, but it is time for > you to settle down and get off this professional board. We have learned a > lot from you, however, and we thank you for that. ---- I doubt that was your reason for posting, Greg. But I will not go so far as to call you a liar. If you have actually read the posts. You can easily see, that is if you truly are a reasonable guy, and if you are intelligent and capable of understanding the consumer's legal rights, that I am not seeking unjust enrichment. In legal terms, and please try to follow, and if you do not understand, please contact an attorney, I have been "harmed" by a contractor, and now he has to make it right. Because he initially sought to hoodwink me, now I am entitled to treble damages. I also have the right to refuse to allow him back in the house. I have been screamed at, curse at, and accused of being a liar by the moron who ruined my floors. I would be a moron to go anywhere near him at this point. In addition, some of his behavior in interacting with me, may enable me to press criminal charges. I can see that scares you, as it should. See, in the contractor biz, unlike most other careers, anyone can hang out a shingle an claim to be competent. There is no formal education require, no extensive testing. Most consumers do not mind paying for a skilled tradesman. The problem is that unlike careers requiring extensive education, testing and vetting before being sent out to assail the public, there are very few ways to discern a skilled tradesman from an moron who simply thinks he is a skilled tradesman. As I said, If I were a skilled tradesman I would want to run all the none skilled guys out of town on a rail. Those people hurt all contractors. Last edited by consumer on Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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consumer	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:39 pm
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:32 pm Posts: 37	RestoWood wrote : > What a mess.... People make mistakes and then some people are too proud to > make it right... Get your money back for the recoat and then find another > contractor to do the work. It seems as though you are out to kill this guy. Restowood What? I am entitled to damages. This floor did not need a sand a recoat until the moron contractor ruined it. If you think that is unreasonable, you will soon get yourself in trouble with someone who knows their rights and really goes after you for a pound or ten of your flesh. > Give the kid a break for > lack of experience or whatever it was that caused the situation. It seems > as though your intentions are not to "make it right". Oh brother, restowood, are you another person who has not bothered to read the thread or perhaps simply can not understand what has been written? I am blonde, but trust me that does not automatically equate to "dumb blonde". Personally, after being repeatedly attacked by some of the contractors here, now I really want a pound a flesh out of this guy. Where as before I came here, I had declined to press criminal charges. Now after being attacked here, I think I need to do that, to protect other consumers from the moron who ruined my floors and has caused be so much inconvenience. Mainly because I am getting a good glimpse of the nasty, blaming unskilled tradesman here an how they truly feel about their clients. > Personally I walked off a job because of an unreasonable homeowner who then > filed suit against me. Her dogs pissed on the floor I was sanding 4 times > while I was there. After kindly asking twice for her to remove the pets and > nothing happening I left. She filed a suit wanting me to pay for damages to > her floor..... WHAT A JOKE.. Actually, I agree your homeowner was wrong. Sorry you had to deal with that. I hope you got an attorney and counter-sued her for slander. > I think you are being quite unreasonable in the situation. Just consider > this a lesson learned and move on. Find a contractor who makes it work and > then stick with them. I know alot of guys that do floors and have reviews > on Angies list. Maybe you should have done more homework? Did you ask for > references? Restowood, I am sure all incompetent contractors would love to see all the consumer they screwed simply move on. The laws are changing, though, making it easier to sue and win. To bad for anyone that's incompetent? I did my homework, There is not much one can do about someone who misrepresents their skills. BTW: I have heard plenty of complaints about angie's list contractors. It seems too many friends and family post those favorable reviews and they can not be trusted. I would never use angie's list. Unfortunately, I just moved to this area from another state, ( northern Texas to be exact.) and don't know enough people to get referrals. The sad fact is there are just too many incompetent contractors out there. Some contractors, according to my attorney hang out their shingle and become contractors, because they simply can't hold real jobs. A large percentage of independent contractors also have criminal records. Again, as I said there is a huge difference between a skilled tradesman and a moron who simply hangs out a shingle and claims to be a contractor. The good contractors should be grateful that consumers out the losers and put them out of business.
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Tim CF	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:52 pm
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:22 am Posts: 2295 Location: Quakertown, PA	Tim CF wrote : > This "kid" is just giving the Pros a bad rep. > Shows how anybody can get some flooring equipment and butcher a nice > hardwood floor. I think I said that about 3 pages ago. Time to give this thread a rest...............................

Permalink Reply by Everett on July 29, 2011 at 4:23pm

Floorlayer2007	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:14 pm
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:39 am Posts: 4777 Location: Prescott, Arizona	Looking back through history, a 3-fold settlement is not entirely out of the question for restitution. Example is given by the ancient Jews who lived quite well under the Mosaic Law for about 1,500 years. As regards stealing, the Law said "If there should be unmistakably found in his hand what was stolen, from bull to ass and to sheep, alive, he is to make double compensation.” This included money or other articles as well as animals. If the thief had slaughtered the stolen animal or had sold it, then he would have to make heavier compensation, namely, for a bull five of the herd, and for a sheep four of the flock. (Ex 22:1, 3, 4, 7) This law had the effect of protecting and recompensing the victim and made the thief work to pay for his crime, rather than sit in a jail as an economic burden to the community, with the victim uncompensated for his loss. (Not trying to get churchy. Just a historic example.) Another way to look at this is . . . usually a screen & recoat would be about a $1.00 per square foot. But a complete sand & finish averages $3.00. Right there is your 3-times compensation. Not unreasonable at all. I'm just saying . . . Charlie in Arizona
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Dale Rosilio	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:39 pm
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:28 pm Posts: 652	Chuckster, Whille I agree, there is a burden of proof placed upon the claimant to show that this contractors actions were willful in nature. There is also the fact that we have but ONE side of this story to base any opinion on.....Let it go.
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Floorlayer2007	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:45 pm
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:39 am Posts: 4777 Location: Prescott, Arizona	It's ok, Dale. Charlie in Arizona
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Dale Rosilio	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:46 pm
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:28 pm Posts: 652	Chuckster, I know and we already know where you are ;)
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consumer	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:24 pm
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:32 pm Posts: 37	Floorlayer2007 wrote : >> > Another way to look at this is . . . usually a screen & recoat would be > about a $1.00 per square foot. But a complete sand & finish averages > $3.00. Right there is your 3-times compensation. Not unreasonable at all. > > I'm just saying . . . > > Charlie in Arizona Floor layer, wherever you are, I have been given a choice buy various contractors to refinish floors the products thus far are. Vermeister, Bona traffic, bona mega with Booster or oil based polyurethane? In my opinion, I think the floor guy should use the product he is comfortable with, so I don't want to ask anyone to use a product they don't normally use. The people who are using the Bona products say it won't peel when they stirp the floors and use it, and they will put that in writing. Which product would you use?
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jazzman	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:51 pm
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 12:14 am Posts: 496 Location: western new york (think Buffalo)	Dana, All of the products you listed will not peel if properly applied to a freshly sanded and prepared hardwood floor. It's your choice based on the contractor you choose. While I sympathize that you had an unfortunate experience with 1 contractor, please don't make unfair accusations about the rest of us ("nasty, blaming unskilled tradesman here ","A large percentage of independent contractors also have criminal records."). You have traded barbs and comments with some individuals here, and yes, they have been nasty, rude, opinionated, and generally unpleasant. However, there is nothing in all that has been said that gives you any grounds to judge their competence or skill level (or even their customer service abilities). This forum is aimed at and populated by trades people from around the globe. We have a bond here simply because of our chosen profession. We share information and experiences that we feel will benefit the other members. We all have opinions on something, and we have no problem expressing or defending them. I think a lot of us here have had similar bad experiences with a customer or two. We share our problems and hope to find solutions from the other members. Based on our experiences, we usually will take the side of the contractor - first, because that is the side that is usually presented here, and second, because many of us have had the same experience, thus creating a bond with the one sharing. Since you deal with the public in your line of work, I'm sure you can understand the need for a place to come and unload when you have had a difficult or challenging customer. Some of us here are very quick to defend those they see as "brothers", because there are too many other people who are too quick to judge someone with out having all the facts available. In the end, the only thing we can offer you here is opinions and they really aren't worth a whole lot - in fact, they are free. You are getting what you paid for on this site. John p.s. - I have great reviews on Angies list, and they are generated by my satisfied customers.
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consumer	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:16 pm
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:32 pm Posts: 37	- Last edited by consumer on Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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biz	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:22 pm
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:51 pm Posts: 309	What's objectively right or wrong should have little if anything to do with written law. Was it right that people got arrested during prohibition only for it to be repealed some time later? Many laws are total bullshit and this is one of 'em. If some prick lawyer hadn't put that idea into your head you wouldn't think that it's right based solely on "the law". (as if "the law" is the word of god for lack of a better phrase) None of us knows the true story here but I have a theory on what happened. You think your floor guy has been coating floors for customers that have all failed and now he "messed with the wrong gal" so to speak. What most likely happened was the guy had never experienced a failure until he coated your floors. As much as you'd like us to stop offering such a "risky" service to our customers, the rate of failures on recoats is very small. (this is based on my own experience, I have no real statistics) Most likely this guy coated your floors with good intentions trying to provide a good service as we all do, not what you keep suggesting-- that he intentionally ripped you off knowing that his coat would peel. The ability to recoat a finished floor is one of the most important aspects of our business. A properly maintained floor coated every 5-10 years or so should never need sanding again. That's why we stress to our customers to be careful with what cleaners they use(btw would you care to respond to my last post in this thread? lol), there's even a blurb on my website about it. We've already established that this guy's inexperience with his recoat procedure, management of customer expectations and damage control skills has caused a big problem here, so let's not blame recoating itself. I don't believe this guy was trying to hoodwink you at all. It's the potential customer's job to make sure whoever they're considering to hire is competent, and the contractor's job to make sure information to confirm said competency is available-- website, references, even videos on youtube or "other sites"(lol). You don't have to have lived somewhere for any amount of time or know a lot of people in your area to request references from a contractor you're considering to hire. Not that talking to any of this guy's references would have prevented this problem... the point is there are ways to determine the competency of a contractor, and believing one's sales spiel isn't one of them. My hope is that you get a judgement against this guy's easily absolvable business and nothing more. At which point someone will have to pay the attorney's fees. I wonder who??? lol You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip after all. I resanded a job a few months ago where they asked a cabinet guy to repair the floor in one area then coat the whole thing. Well my theory is that this guy didn't even screen it, let alone deep clean it. And by the looks of all the hairs and debris in the coat I doubt he vac'd it either. He also forgot to put the cats outside so there's little cat prints in the finish lol. The weird thing is these people kept defending the guy the whole time. I guess they thought it was their fault for having someone step outside their comfort zone and do something he had no business doing. Different situation of course, but same outcome(flooring wise, not bullshit litigation wise). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgeL8jjOmGs And where are Bill and Paul with the banstick and the lockstick?
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consumer	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:28 pm
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:32 pm Posts: 37	jazzman wrote : > Dana > While I sympathize that you had an unfortunate experience with 1 > contractor, please don't make unfair accusations about the rest of us > ("nasty, blaming unskilled tradesman here ","A large > percentage of independent contractors also have criminal records."). John: A fact is a fact. The statement is a fact. Where as the comments that I am a liar are speculative. The people responding to my posts should only be responding to the facts presented. They should not be speculating about whether or not they are true. Because if they ain't true, I ain't gonna' win in court. So speculation is rude and not productive or pertinent. Sadly, the fact is that a large percentage of INDEPENDENT contractors DEFINITIVELY DO have criminal records. A large company vets employees and is responsible for their work AND BACKGROUND CHECKS. An independent contractor is vetted by no one. I am sure you don't want to hear that but a wee bit of research will show it to be a fact. > You have traded barbs and comments with some individuals here, and yes, > they have been nasty, rude, opinionated, and generally unpleasant. However, > there is nothing in all that has been said that gives you any grounds to > judge their competence or skill level (or even their customer service > abilities). John, actually, their behavior speaks to their lack of customer service skills. People judge others by their behavior and the company they keep. That's basic PR 101. Anyone who does not know that has just proven that they lack basic customer relations skills. Don't like that thought. Then do something about it, instead of sniveling and making excuses. You are right, though, that my opinion of their skills is speculative. Too bad. If you can dish than you darn well better be able to take it. I am taking it. There were a number of legitimately nice guys here. But the RUDE guys here need to pull up their big boy diapers and stop whining, or trying to shoo people off the board when they get barbed back by the little woman. > This forum is aimed at and populated by trades people from around the > globe. We have a bond here simply because of our chosen profession. We > share information and experiences that we feel will benefit the other > members. We all have opinions on something, and we have no problem > expressing or defending them. I think a lot of us here have had similar bad > experiences with a customer or two. We share our problems and hope to find > solutions from the other members. Based on our experiences, we usually will > take the side of the contractor - first, because that is the side that is > usually presented here, and second, because many of us have had the same > experience, thus creating a bond with the one sharing. Since you deal with > the public in your line of work, I'm sure you can understand the need for a > place to come and unload when you have had a difficult or challenging > customer. Some of us here are very quick to defend those they see as > "brothers", because there are too many other people who are too > quick to judge someone with out having all the facts available. Well, John then why not make it a membership only website closed to consumers? I understand about brotherhoods and they are usually closed to outsiders. If this is a brotherhood......close it to consumers. The way it appears now.....It seems this is just a place to bate consumers. It appears to be place where contractors pretend to be good guys offering advice to unsuspecting consumers, when they are really making wise ass comments about the consumer being a Moron, behind the scenes or posting posts with double ententes, all the while pretending to want to help the consumer. The backhanded insulting remarks here by some contractors has not gone over my head. Like I said. I may be blonde but.......... Or, perhaps your little venus fly trap of a brotherhood is just too much fun when it catches a defenseless fly. > > In the end, the only thing we can offer you here is opinions and they > really aren't worth a whole lot - in fact, they are free. You are getting > what you paid for on this site. Obviously this is a place to get opinions, John. Is that a surprise to you? Again, if you don't want to offer opinions to consumers than do not open the site to unwary consumers. Tell the truth. In another thread here, one of your brothers suggested throwing a brick through the homeowner's house due to a quality dispute. Is that how your brothers behave. Again, people judge you buy the company you keep, as they should. That is just basic stuff. Didn't your mom tell you that? As for free advice not being worth anything.....Well, almost all of the best advice I have gotten throughout life has been free. Sorry that you have to pay people to give you advice that you can rely on, but the folks I know are honest and straightforward and do not hesitate to offer constructive advice. My friends and acquaintances freely share their acquired knowledge. In fact, I think advice that someone charges for without willingness to deliver anything is usually the worst advice. Like the phony advice the lunatic who did my floors gave me, and the fibs he told just to get the job. > p.s. - I have great reviews on Angies list, and they are generated by my > satisfied customers. Well, John, Angie's list is all about opinions, That's why your logic that, an opinion isn't worth much, is kinda' surprising to me. Nevertheless a review on Angie's list ain't worth much, even if you have to pay. A quick five second google search will pull up a ton of complaints about Angie's list, and a ton of explanations about why the site's reviews and the site itself should not be trusted. The fact that a contractor is on angie's list does not mean he is competent or will stand by his work. Stuff, happens, people are human, but a contractor needs to man up and stand behind his work, and if he screws up an apology for the inconvenience to the consumer is in order. Basic consumer relations 101......if ya' screw up and cause an inconvenience you need to make it up to the consumer. I don't see that suggestion coming from any of the rude contractors here who I have lambasted. At this point I don't even care about money, as some here seem to be implying I want the guy who did my floor out of business. I want him to declare bankruptcy. At this point, I don't even care if I recoup the original fee for the floor or attorney fees. I want this guy out of business. Why? Because the rude guys here have shown me what your brotherhood is all about and I feel totally vindicated in protecting the rest of the public from the guy who did my floors. I am on a crusade in fact, at this point, thanks to being enlightened by some of the rude contractors here. Don't like that? Well than all ya' gotta' do is do the job right the first time, of if ya' screw up.... fix it. 'cause, there are people out there who are a lot worse than I will be about going after a pound of flesh. Some people can get really ornery and vindictive. If you get wise ass, they get even more ornery and vindictive. There are some who a pound a flesh will simply not be enough. They won't stop until the contractor is totally ruined and will never work again. You never know who you are dealing with, and maybe you will get lucky and never run into someone who is in a position to ruin you and your future. Are you willing to flirt with that possibility? If you and some of your ruder brethren here keep making excuses for shoddy work, you and they will eventually run into someone who is a lot meaner than I can ever hope to be. And so be it!
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Permalink Reply by Everett on July 29, 2011 at 4:24pm

jazzman	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:57 pm
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 12:14 am Posts: 496 Location: western new york (think Buffalo)	Dana, I'm sorry that you misunderstood my post. I am not trying to defend rude and angry people, only trying to get you to see things from their perspective. By the way, we are not all like that. I have not been rude or spoken with any malice toward you. As far as this site is concerned, you have to look no further than the banner at the top of the page - "SERVING WOOD FLOORING PROFESSIONALS ONLINE SINCE 1997". This site is aimed to the professionals - not the homeowner. This is not to say that you are unwelcome here, but that things are presented here from our point of view. In fairness to all, you have to admit that there is always more than one point of view on any given subject. I wish you the best of luck on flooring problem and hope that you have a just and equitable outcome (although it may not be the results you desire). John
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twaeker	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:24 am
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:28 am Posts: 53	consumer wrote : > jazzman wrote : > > Dana > > While I sympathize that you had an unfortunate experience with 1 > > contractor, please don't make unfair accusations about the rest of us > > ("nasty, blaming unskilled tradesman here ","A large > > percentage of independent contractors also have criminal records."). > > John: A fact is a fact. The statement is a fact. Where as the comments that I am a > liar are speculative. > > The people responding to my posts should only be responding to the facts presented. > They should not be speculating about whether or not they are true. Because if they > ain't true, I ain't gonna' win in court. So speculation is rude and not productive > or pertinent. > > Sadly, the fact is that a large percentage of INDEPENDENT contractors DEFINITIVELY DO > have criminal records. A large company vets employees and is responsible for their > work AND BACKGROUND CHECKS. An independent contractor is vetted by no one. > > I am sure you don't want to hear that but a wee bit of research will show it to be a > fact. > > > You have traded barbs and comments with some individuals here, and yes, > > they have been nasty, rude, opinionated, and generally unpleasant. However, > > there is nothing in all that has been said that gives you any grounds to > > judge their competence or skill level (or even their customer service > > abilities). > > John, actually, their behavior speaks to their lack of customer service skills. > People judge others by their behavior and the company they keep. > > That's basic PR 101. Anyone who does not know that has just proven that they lack > basic customer relations skills. Don't like that thought. Then do something about > it, instead of sniveling and making excuses. > > You are right, though, that my opinion of their skills is speculative. Too bad. If > you can dish than you darn well better be able to take it. I am taking it. > > There were a number of legitimately nice guys here. But the RUDE guys here need to > pull up their big boy diapers and stop whining, or trying to shoo people off the > board when they get barbed back by the little woman. > > > This forum is aimed at and populated by trades people from around the > > globe. We have a bond here simply because of our chosen profession. We > > share information and experiences that we feel will benefit the other > > members. We all have opinions on something, and we have no problem > > expressing or defending them. I think a lot of us here have had similar bad > > experiences with a customer or two. We share our problems and hope to find > > solutions from the other members. Based on our experiences, we usually will > > take the side of the contractor - first, because that is the side that is > > usually presented here, and second, because many of us have had the same > > experience, thus creating a bond with the one sharing. Since you deal with > > the public in your line of work, I'm sure you can understand the need for a > > place to come and unload when you have had a difficult or challenging > > customer. Some of us here are very quick to defend those they see as > > "brothers", because there are too many other people who are too > > quick to judge someone with out having all the facts available. > > > Well, John then why not make it a membership only website closed to consumers? I > understand about brotherhoods and they are usually closed to outsiders. If this is a > brotherhood......close it to consumers. > > The way it appears now.....It seems this is just a place to bate consumers. It > appears to be place where contractors pretend to be good guys offering advice to > unsuspecting consumers, when they are really making wise ass comments about the > consumer being a Moron, behind the scenes or posting posts with double ententes, all > the while pretending to want to help the consumer. > > The backhanded insulting remarks here by some contractors has not gone over my head. > Like I said. I may be blonde but.......... > > Or, perhaps your little venus fly trap of a brotherhood is just too much fun when it > catches a defenseless fly. > > > > In the end, the only thing we can offer you here is opinions and they > > really aren't worth a whole lot - in fact, they are free. You are getting > > what you paid for on this site. > > Obviously this is a place to get opinions, John. Is that a surprise to you? > Again, if you don't want to offer opinions to consumers than do not open the site to > unwary consumers. Tell the truth. In another thread here, one of your brothers > suggested throwing a brick through the homeowner's house due to a quality dispute. > Is that how your brothers behave. Again, people judge you buy the company you keep, > as they should. That is just basic stuff. Didn't your mom tell you that? > > As for free advice not being worth anything.....Well, almost all of the best advice I > have gotten throughout life has been free. Sorry that you have to pay people to > give you advice that you can rely on, but the folks I know are honest and > straightforward and do not hesitate to offer constructive advice. My friends and > acquaintances freely share their acquired knowledge. > > In fact, I think advice that someone charges for without willingness to deliver > anything is usually the worst advice. Like the phony advice the lunatic who did my > floors gave me, and the fibs he told just to get the job. > > > p.s. - I have great reviews on Angies list, and they are generated by my > > satisfied customers. > > Well, John, Angie's list is all about opinions, That's why your logic that, an > opinion isn't worth much, is kinda' surprising to me. > > Nevertheless a review on Angie's list ain't worth much, even if you have to pay. > > A quick five second google search will pull up a ton of complaints about Angie's > list, and a ton of explanations about why the site's reviews and the site itself > should not be trusted. > > The fact that a contractor is on angie's list does not mean he is competent or will > stand by his work. > > Stuff, happens, people are human, but a contractor needs to man up and stand behind > his work, and if he screws up an apology for the inconvenience to the consumer is in > order. Basic consumer relations 101......if ya' screw up and cause an inconvenience > you need to make it up to the consumer. I don't see that suggestion coming from any > of the rude contractors here who I have lambasted. > > At this point I don't even care about money, as some here seem to be implying > > I want the guy who did my floor out of business. I want him to declare bankruptcy. > At this point, I don't even care if I recoup the original fee for the floor or > attorney fees. I want this guy out of business. > > Why? > > Because the rude guys here have shown me what your brotherhood is all about and I > feel totally vindicated in protecting the rest of the public from the guy who did my > floors. I am on a crusade in fact, at this point, thanks to being enlightened by > some of the rude contractors here. > > Don't like that? Well than all ya' gotta' do is do the job right the first time, of > if ya' screw up.... fix it. > > 'cause, there are people out there who are a lot worse than I will be about going > after a pound of flesh. Some people can get really ornery and vindictive. If you > get wise ass, they get even more ornery and vindictive. > > There are some who a pound a flesh will simply not be enough. They won't stop until > the contractor is totally ruined and will never work again. You never know who you > are dealing with, and maybe you will get lucky and never run into someone who is in a > position to ruin you and your future. Are you willing to flirt with that > possibility? > > If you and some of your ruder brethren here keep making excuses for shoddy work, you > and they will eventually run into someone who is a lot meaner than I can ever hope to > be. > > And so be it! Are you by any chance single?
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Permalink Reply by Everett on July 29, 2011 at 4:25pm

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Tim CF	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:14 am
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:22 am Posts: 2295 Location: Quakertown, PA	What a wild ride it has been! OK fellow floormasters, I have sat back patiently and watched you few make an ass of yourselfs. I actually am one contractor who looked at her floors. Surprise! The area in question was only 567ft not 1200sq. as the consumer has stated. Foyer, living room, dinning room, kitchen. Sanded on site, stained Sedona red. Oil poly used for the original coats. The first thing I said when I entered was, He coated with waterbase. I saw lap marks, obvious pull lines around the perimeter. Crap in the corners. Dana "not her real name" showed me the peeling area's. I knelt down and I proceeded to pull off finish with my fingernail. On closer inspection, I observed WLS in a few boards in the kitchen. The floor looked good as in not damaged or worn, so If I was the contractor and had a $1200 job, yes it would have been easy money. So the "kid" charged her $1200 as is an astounding $2.00+ per square foot. Should Dana go for triple damages? I don't think it is warranted. But the previous contractor should pay for a complete resand. It has been quite amusing to follow the ranting of a few "pro's" Last edited by Tim CF on Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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hbrickman	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:32 am
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:26 pm Posts: 800 Location: Brickman Consulting-Massachusetts	The sign reads, "Please don't tease the Grizzly Bears." But some people just can't help themselves. Bill, I hope that you have been enjoying this exchange.
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Crowsflooring	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:51 am
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:43 pm Posts: 347	bill lock the post enough has been said
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Floorlayer2007	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:59 am
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:39 am Posts: 4777 Location: Prescott, Arizona	Consumer: All said and done, you've presented your side and I have to believe that you're telling the truth. Even if it was only a fictitious scenario (is that redundant?), then you have a case. The guys here on this site are probably the best in the world in our trade. Even if you've pushed a few buttons, you've a right to post without ridicule. You've tested all of our professional/social/communication skills. Keep us informed as to how it works out for you. It's like all intestinal problems . . . They all work out in the end. Charlie in Arizona
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Paul Mierzejewski	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:09 am
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:51 pm Posts: 1648 Location: Central Connecticut	Consumer This thread will be locked sometime today. I think all have given their opinions. Thanks, Paul Mierzejewski Site Moderator
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Dale Rosilio	Post subject: Re: bona traffic peeling Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:14 am
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:28 pm Posts: 652	Tsk, Tsk... now daddy's taking the T-bird away...:(
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Permalink Reply by Stephen on July 29, 2011 at 5:50pm

That outa be some good reading this weekend.  I remember KevinD chiming in thats the last time I read it. Was there anything more exciting about the thread?

Permalink Reply by Everett on July 30, 2011 at 7:51am

It's not really complete, when google cache'd some of these pages they didn't have all the replies yet but more and more of it shows up every day.