Install questions

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Permalink Reply by Dale Rosilio on September 6, 2010 at 7:53am

Nice work on the stairs, the hickory looks nice. Keep updating as you complete the work.........

Btw: What issues are you having using WB on Maple? Maybe the Knowledgeable flooring apostles here can help find a solution....

Permalink Reply by Ben Olson on September 6, 2010 at 8:56am

The hickory was a job I did, not in my house. I made the carpenter there rebuild the staircase twice, but it did pass inspection. Every single time I put staris in new construction, they never figure in for the flooring. There was another flight with 15 treads.

My wife took a bunch of pics on her camera too, I'll have her load them for me.

In my flicker account I have some pics of a Nano job that streaked and beaded like crazy. I realize that the beading was from putting the US on too thick, but Nathan from Rustoleum said that's where the streaks came from too...
WB sealers that cup the wood. I finally got the hang of US, getting it on without beading from the cracks, but then it seems that the wood isn't sealed enough and the first coat of WB dries almost instantly.
The last few times I have used WB, it just sets up way too fast. Always used Traffic, never an issue. It's almost like there's an accelerant in it? Same thing with Street Shoe. Last time I used it, in a room 20 foot long I t-barred it. By the time I feathered my turn and got back to the other end ( what, about 15 seconds?) I was grabbing the applicator. Same thing wiith Traffic, streaks and brushmarks.

Permalink Reply by Dale Rosilio on September 6, 2010 at 9:55am

You can apply several thin coats of US if "insufficient sealing" is something that is contributing to your problem, I just applied 2 successive coats on a bedroom floor in my house before applying 4 coats of WB finish. Main reason for using US on this floor wass due to it being 5/16 flooring and I wasn't taking extra time to set and fill a small number of nail heads exposed on the final sanding as I was having furniture delivered in a few days and it's my home so I can fill latter as I see them. WB sealer on fresh sanded 5/16 can leave blackish-gray streaks when pulled over those exposed nails.
Now we've never experienced VM drying too quickly over US, but still apply Aqua Tenax over US before Idro anyhow. Your main issue could very well be that you need a high build sealer over the US, even if that is "one" answer you should be abrading that 1st coat of WB anyhow which should take care of those set-up issues that you may be having and provide a smooth surface on what should be now a significantly sealed floor. This doesn't mean that I'm making lite of your issue as we've experienced that set up issue with Street shoe { only quality WB product availble locally to us at the time besides Parks Pro finisher at Home Depot } but chaulked it up to Radient heat from the Sun light coming in thru a wall of 2 story windows. Whether it was that or a combination of that and the chemical composition of the finish we decided on experimenting with Vermeister due to them having the only Drying Retarding agent in the US WB market, Nathaniel's Product comping didn't hurt us trying it either as we were in the process of finding a quality WB product. Now the only time that we experience such issues are in direct air flow areas where I have have forgotten to shut the AC down temporarily or with Aqua Tenax on barewood that we don't experience with their Flame sealer, maybe due to the Acrylic nature of AQ. Both are high solid sealers that provide a good base for the finish coats.
As for cupping issues, that is one down fall of WB products on wood flooring yet one that dissipates or remedies itself as the MC corrects and one we don't see alot of on 3/4 flooring. Too quick a recoating of the floor also exacerbates the issue of cupping so give more dry time, this only helps the moisture evaporate and provides you with a final surface coating with it's intergral strength intact. The one issue that I have with WB finish is the shakes it can expose on grainy flooring like Red and White Oaks. It's a pain in the ass knowing that you have to replace or do some remedial work prior to applying another coat, I guess on another level it exposes a flaw now rather than later because it is there regardless of what finish that you use, WB only brings it to light.

Btw: We aren't to a point in time yet nor may you and I ever be there, but as I've said before WB finish is going to be the default product and we'll be using them with increasing frequency in the future. The products are getting better and they will continue to do so, so get used to using them and better yourself in their usage.

Permalink Reply by geo on September 6, 2010 at 10:11am

i used to pride myself on not using cheap lacquer sealers, no as time and money both are in smaller supplies on jobs, we are using shellac on 1/2 our jobs. hope this doesn't make me a bad person...

Permalink Reply by Dale Rosilio on September 6, 2010 at 10:27am

Not sure what this has to do with the issue at hand, but I forgive you Geo and no you're not a bad person....;)

Permalink Reply by Ben Olson on September 8, 2010 at 7:53am

That all makes sense. I'm sure evryone would like to call it operator error, but I feel that all of the conditions were right when I had these problems...

Permalink Reply by Dale Rosilio on September 8, 2010 at 10:16am

Noone is pointing fingers at you for operator error, some products react differently over different products due to chemical composition and surface tension issues for example, it's just a matter of figuring out which puzzle pieces fit with the other. Some times we do things as we always have to the T and a chemical in Let's say Traffic for example reactivates the shellac which creates drag or surface tension that leaves streaks or applicator marks; how would one know til they experience it? Weather or environmental conditions work with or against each product differently regardless if they're all WB as they're all unique to themselves, in a sense we're Ginuea pigs in our own experiments. So don't get offended by the answers/ questions put forth as we're all in the same boat trying to help YOU find a solution that works......

Permalink Reply by Ben Olson on September 8, 2010 at 10:20pm

No offense taken... just sayin. In a sense, it is operator error, (or no, an experiment LOL).
The chemical composition thing makes perfect sense, never would have thought of it that way. Come to think of it, I was trying something new. ( Different sealers, but with the SS I used Emulsion, and still had set up problems, so chemical comp is out the door on that one.) The finish just didn't act as I was used to.

Sometimes I just get sick sick of all the trials which more often than not lead to errors. Have yet to be satisfied with ANY floor finish, they all have their drawbacks....

Permalink Reply by Dale Rosilio on September 9, 2010 at 5:28am

SS was the product that I had set up issues with as well hence why I stuck with Bacca/Glitsa so long, I knew that my results would be consistent with Bacca/Glitsa. I now use Vermeister which can have it's issues, but I have learned what it can do and how it reacts under different conditions and over other products. Unfortunately the trials are always going to be there no matter what product you use, I guess you have to find one that you're comfortable with and causes you the least headaches then master using that product. Ofcourse the manufacturer can without notice change their formulations and cause that " doesn't act as I am used to" factor and put you back to the beginning again.......Life of the floorman.

Permalink Reply by Bill Jauernig on September 9, 2010 at 12:27pm

Ben
When you used PoloPlaz Prism on the maple job what was the results?

Permalink Reply by Ben Olson on September 10, 2010 at 8:37am

Bill,
Can't really remember, it's been a year or more. But I do remember I had to put two coats on, seems the first one was a little blotchy.
I put Traffic over the top, this is one were it set up too fast. I had a couple of brush marks.

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