Let's talk flooring!
The White Paper - Floor Covering Industry White Paper Position Statement on Moisture Emission Testing
Definition:
WHITE PAPER 1. in a technological industry, is an informational brief offering an overview of a technology, product, issue, standard, policy, or solution - its importance, use and implementation, and business benefits. White Papers have emerged as the standard way of communicating more in-depth information to business decision-makers in terms of problems solved and markets addressed; or, 2. a White Paper can be an official government report of an investigation into a public event that received a great deal of publicity and notoriety; it indicates the official government position on a particular public issue.
Link To White Paper:
White Paper
Question:
Has anyone ever offered this paper to defend themselves in a court of law about any floor covering failure and won on it's merits yet? I have not heard of one myself.
The problem I see is this is not a standard, it is a policy not enforced or yet agreed to by any of the other construction industry entity's to this date of posting. And still there is no industry standard stating that any one "specialist" is allowed to test for moisture in concrete.
There is still disagreement in testing procedures as in performing Rh or calcium chloride tests and which one is better or worse or even to use both as in a recent statement by Howard Kanare on the Rapid Rh website as disputed by another recognized industry concrete expert Bob Higgins.
I for one do my own testing on my jobs and document them as best that can be done. Even then if the flooring fails due to changing environments and slab conditions I can still be held responsible in any court of law. Not without a convincing fight I might add but .....there does not seem to be any consensus in any court alleviating a contractor from responsibility in a lawsuit even with this White Paper and correct placement of moisture testing equipment,procedures and results as described by floor covering manufactures and adhesive manufactures.
The main direction of this paper seems to not disqualify the contractor from responsibility but simply to direct the flooring community to use "certified" people to conduct moisture testing. This has yet to help our industry problem as far as I can tell. And the issue seems to be disregarded as any important problem facing the industry since the papers acceptance.
WHITE PAPER 1. in a technological industry, is an informational brief offering an overview of a technology, product, issue, standard, policy, or solution - its importance, use and implementation, and business benefits. White Papers have emerged as the standard way of communicating more in-depth information to business decision-makers in terms of problems solved and markets addressed; or, 2. a White Paper can be an official government report of an investigation into a public event that received a great deal of publicity and notoriety; it indicates the official government position on a particular public issue.
Link To White Paper:
White Paper
Question:
Has anyone ever offered this paper to defend themselves in a court of law about any floor covering failure and won on it's merits yet? I have not heard of one myself.
The problem I see is this is not a standard, it is a policy not enforced or yet agreed to by any of the other construction industry entity's to this date of posting. And still there is no industry standard stating that any one "specialist" is allowed to test for moisture in concrete.
There is still disagreement in testing procedures as in performing Rh or calcium chloride tests and which one is better or worse or even to use both as in a recent statement by Howard Kanare on the Rapid Rh website as disputed by another recognized industry concrete expert Bob Higgins.
I for one do my own testing on my jobs and document them as best that can be done. Even then if the flooring fails due to changing environments and slab conditions I can still be held responsible in any court of law. Not without a convincing fight I might add but .....there does not seem to be any consensus in any court alleviating a contractor from responsibility in a lawsuit even with this White Paper and correct placement of moisture testing equipment,procedures and results as described by floor covering manufactures and adhesive manufactures.
The main direction of this paper seems to not disqualify the contractor from responsibility but simply to direct the flooring community to use "certified" people to conduct moisture testing. This has yet to help our industry problem as far as I can tell. And the issue seems to be disregarded as any important problem facing the industry since the papers acceptance.
Comment
-
Comment by Jerome on April 16, 2009 at 3:38am -
We, as installers, need to completely reverse course concerning this slab and moisture issue. We all know that judges don't consider a waiver to mean anything. The judges reason that consumers are not educated enough to know what they are signing and assuming responsibility for. Ok.... I get that part. So, my view of this is for me to conduct a standard moisture test and then go over everything with the end user. Any problems I can foresee we all discuss. To cover myself (us) we should come up with a very thorough test we hand over to them to complete and sign. These questions can be true/false and also give them multiple choice answers to check off. If the consumer can get a passing grade on that short test, I don't see how any judge could put the blame solely on me for installing something I had serious concerns about but my advice was overridden by the end user. It's their floor, it's their house, it's their money.
I also think I should come up a short test like that addressing RH and temp controls year round so everyone involved knows the consumer understands the importance of doing this.
-
Comment by Stephen on April 15, 2009 at 7:29pm -
In a way, I can see the white paper wanting to have only "experts" test slabs. But in the real world this ain't going to be feasable.
For one, there just are not enough qualified people out there, including qualified programs to teach them.
Another problem I see is time frame, again, not enough qualified people to get on all the jobs that require them. So in effect many will not be tested at all and improperly.
If the paper were to become a "standard" in a way that would exlpain why these tests cannot predict future events and relinguish contractors from liability then I think we will be onto something. Till then, the white paper will sit on the shelves and help no one.
-
Comment by Jerome on April 11, 2009 at 5:02am
- I have some thoughts to post about this but I got to get some other issues and my taxes done first. I'll be back :)
-
Comment by Stephen on April 9, 2009 at 8:39pm
- Nothing has changed, your right. We are still responsible for the slabs, not the home owner, not the concrete contractor, not mother nature.
-
Comment by Stephen on April 9, 2009 at 1:47pm
-
I'd like to refer to this statement in the White Paper:
However, flooring contractors’
expertise should, by requirement, be limited to flooring materials and their
installation.
I find this statement intolerable as it makes us flooring contractors seem unable to grasp the technical issues concerning the mositure testing of concrete.
Also the paper does not really address old existing concrete slabs. It seems more directed to new placement of concrete.
I feel this paper needs more direction and be written over and adopted as a standard especially in regards to new advanced adhesives and mositure retarders since being adopted as our industry policy.
Notes
Flooring
Flooring is one of the most important areas in home decor. And high quality flooring matched with high quality installation is the perfect solution to any flooring project.
Created by Steve Simonson Nov 6, 2008 at 10:58am. Last updated by Steve Simonson Nov. 6, 2008.
Steve's Resource List
- Flooring (Old School Flooring)
- Flooring Reviews (Floor Du Jour for consumers)
- Flooring & Furniture Wholesale (Gala Manufacturing)
- Hardwood Flooring Development Site only
- Bamboo Flooring Horizontal Bamboo
Created by Steve Simonson Oct 22, 2008 at 12:06am. Last updated by Steve Simonson Aug 27.
Badge
© 2010 Created by Steve Simonson.
You need to be a member of Flooring Installer .com to add comments!
Join Flooring Installer .com